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<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>Shiny Future Cautions · wg-async-foundations · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/index.html">wg-async-foundations</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny.20Future.20Cautions.html">Shiny Future Cautions</a></h3>

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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny%20Future%20Cautions/near/235472872" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> rylev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny.20Future.20Cautions.html#235472872">(Apr 21 2021 at 08:26)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> I think it might be a good idea to add another section to the shiny future FAQ: "what are some potential pitfalls in this shiny future?" (or something similar). It would be good to think a bit about what potentially could go wrong if we end up in a future like the one described: is async code less efficient? Do we run the risk of hiding too much abstraction behind "magic"? </p>
<p>Thoughts?</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny%20Future%20Cautions/near/235473124" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny.20Future.20Cautions.html#235473124">(Apr 21 2021 at 08:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>I thought that was the purpose of <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/wg-async-foundations/vision/shiny_future/template.html#are-there-any-a-hrefprojectshtmlprojectsa-that-are-hindered-by-this-future">this section</a></p>



<a name="235473153"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny%20Future%20Cautions/near/235473153" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny.20Future.20Cautions.html#235473153">(Apr 21 2021 at 08:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>but in general I've found the FAQ template for shiny future a bit cumbersome</p>



<a name="235473169"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny%20Future%20Cautions/near/235473169" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny.20Future.20Cautions.html#235473169">(Apr 21 2021 at 08:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>so I wouldn't be opposed to simplifying it</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny%20Future%20Cautions/near/235475423" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> rylev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny.20Future.20Cautions.html#235475423">(Apr 21 2021 at 08:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>Ah, yes I guess I didn't fully grok what that question was asking. Maybe it needs to be reworded</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny%20Future%20Cautions/near/235476066" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny.20Future.20Cautions.html#235476066">(Apr 21 2021 at 08:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>Let's tweak them</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny%20Future%20Cautions/near/235476119" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny.20Future.20Cautions.html#235476119">(Apr 21 2021 at 08:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>I've also not found the "character-by-character" questions very helpful</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny%20Future%20Cautions/near/235476125" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny.20Future.20Cautions.html#235476125">(Apr 21 2021 at 08:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>They were meant to focus on attributes of Rust</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny%20Future%20Cautions/near/235476149" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny.20Future.20Cautions.html#235476149">(Apr 21 2021 at 08:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>e.g., <em>Think about Grace's top priority (memory safety) and the expectations she brings (still able to use all the tricks she knows and loves). How do they fare in this future?</em></p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny%20Future%20Cautions/near/235476170" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny.20Future.20Cautions.html#235476170">(Apr 21 2021 at 08:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I think it's distracting, it tends to be like "what does a C programmer think"</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny%20Future%20Cautions/near/235476218" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny.20Future.20Cautions.html#235476218">(Apr 21 2021 at 08:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>the idea of having 4 questions was to force people to think about all the things, but I've found it kind of leads to spread out or repetitive answers</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny%20Future%20Cautions/near/235476249" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny.20Future.20Cautions.html#235476249">(Apr 21 2021 at 08:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>I also think I'm missing something a bit like the "morals" -- like, what are the <em>key attributes</em> of this shiny future</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny%20Future%20Cautions/near/235476263" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny.20Future.20Cautions.html#235476263">(Apr 21 2021 at 08:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>going to make a hackmd to sketch</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny%20Future%20Cautions/near/235476368" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny.20Future.20Cautions.html#235476368">(Apr 21 2021 at 08:58)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="https://hackmd.io/f53O_LZQScKK8svd-PfKig">shiny future FAQs</a></p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny%20Future%20Cautions/near/235477849" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny.20Future.20Cautions.html#235477849">(Apr 21 2021 at 09:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok, <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="224872">@rylev</span>, take a look</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny%20Future%20Cautions/near/235478429" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> rylev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny.20Future.20Cautions.html#235478429">(Apr 21 2021 at 09:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>Looks good. I would caution against the last question. it's good to get a high-level overview of things needed to reach the shiny future, but this document is not meant to be a technical RFC</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny%20Future%20Cautions/near/235483809" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny.20Future.20Cautions.html#235483809">(Apr 21 2021 at 10:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>The part I really want is <em>Are there parts of this future you don't know how to implement or solve?</em></p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny%20Future%20Cautions/near/235483819" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny.20Future.20Cautions.html#235483819">(Apr 21 2021 at 10:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>interestingly my goal with this was to <em>encourage</em> people to have such parts</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny%20Future%20Cautions/near/235483840" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny.20Future.20Cautions.html#235483840">(Apr 21 2021 at 10:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe I'll just keep that</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny%20Future%20Cautions/near/235483962" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny.20Future.20Cautions.html#235483962">(Apr 21 2021 at 10:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>the other part of this:</p>



<a name="235484393"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny%20Future%20Cautions/near/235484393" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny.20Future.20Cautions.html#235484393">(Apr 21 2021 at 10:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>never mind</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny%20Future%20Cautions/near/235484399" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny.20Future.20Cautions.html#235484399">(Apr 21 2021 at 10:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>I made some edits though</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny%20Future%20Cautions/near/235484403" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny.20Future.20Cautions.html#235484403">(Apr 21 2021 at 10:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>take a look, <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="224872">@rylev</span></p>



<a name="235484513"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny%20Future%20Cautions/near/235484513" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> rylev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny.20Future.20Cautions.html#235484513">(Apr 21 2021 at 10:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>Looks great!</p>



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<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny%20Future%20Cautions/near/235485131" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/Shiny.20Future.20Cautions.html#235485131">(Apr 21 2021 at 10:15)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="224872">@rylev</span> <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/wg-async-foundations/pull/166">https://github.com/rust-lang/wg-async-foundations/pull/166</a></p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
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